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Vedicarya's avatar

I think India being far larger did benefit it.

Pakistan is relatively smaller and had far fewer people at independence. The state was practically propped up by local zamindars.

India being larger meant that no local powerful clans could really exert power across the entire country. There were too many powerful elites in different parts of the country, all different.

So naturally India had a separate pan-Indian political class, and only the central govt was really able to exert power. Naturally then you don’t have the rentier issue.

Because of this I think India was able to develop a capitalist bourgeois class due to there not being an overbearing feudal class. While originally small and less powerful, it eventually overtook landowners and even the political elite class in political influence.

The pressures from their own business growth early on is probably what lead to the government needing to push reform over time, as growing businesses have more demands and affect the overall economy more - such as the need for oil which lead to the balance of payments crisis for example.

Once those reforms were effectively enacted, India has only really been growing since. Its also still reforming which indicates this capitalist class is still alive and growing in their size and demands.

Pakistan’s elites intentionally chokehold the development of a capitalist class. However that doesn’t mean it cant develop or isn’t developing. Its just developing far more slowly and it hasn’t reached the tipping point for their demands yet. The issue is once that class is large and economically influential enough for demands - will they be met? Probably not. It will probably be a real clash between the army (feudals) and civilian govt (burgeoning capitalist class seeking demands for growth).

Not that I’m a marxist in any way, but I think their theories on societal evolution and “bourgeois wars” are relatively sound.

India avoided a bourgeois war because the British killed its feudal influence and essentially did it for India (technically through war but still)- and India’s modern state was kinda handed to it.

Pakistan never had one and just might have one in the future since its still heavily feudal.

Lila Krishna's avatar

We've talked about the limitations of GDP and GDP per capita and you've said other metrics exist to understand the economy of a country -- so why don't you use them here?

You should look at the human capital of each country. What percentage of the population have been to college? What is the literacy rate? what's the size of the organized economy? estimates of disorganized economy? Who are the biggest employers? how easy is it to do business? What kind of innovations happen in the economy? If you look from this metric, it will become obvious why iran is far, far ahead.

Let's say pakistan is not that far below India. But can they do the same things in their economy as we can? There have been attempts at setting up a tech sector and it's always failed there. there's got to be effects from absolute size of economy that benefit india, right?

And 'fundamentalism' in itself is not the issue, it is how that fundamentalism manifests. There seems to be an allergy for actually getting your hands dirty with work among Arabs. That's precisely why they import tons of immigrants to do all their work, and then not give them any path to citizenship (essentially a slave-based society). This idea comes from fundamentalism, but they can afford to keep at this because of oil wealth. Pakistanis have the same attitude, but 1) no one wants to immigrate to pakistan, nothing aspirational about it 2) they don't have wealth to pay people to. They try to do this with their own people, I guess, but when everyone has this attitude, things can only go so far. There can be no dignity in labor.

Why doesn't fundamentalism stop Iran from having world-class universities that do cutting edge research and being able to come up with advanced weaponry or oilfield innovations? Because the basis for their fundamentalism is different - they can be the superior race or whatever, but they also consider themselves the descendants of 2500 years of superior ancestors who weren't afraid to get their hands dirty and make great things, and feel like the buck stops with them. Pakistani fundamentalism aspires to be goatherding invaders, so that's what they'll be.

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